A Bloke’s Blog

Um…who is looking for an excuse? We see no evidence for your god, or any other one. If your god is arbitrary enough to punish people for honestly not believing in him, but for otherwise being good people, then he’s not worth worrying about.

Good God, Van Til is right.

I’m going to become a Muslim immediately.

No- the quote obviously refers to the Vedas! Or the Book of the Dead or possibly the Analects… I think.

On a more on topic note, why the heck did you have the quote in the first place? It sounds- no, it IS a complete rehashing of the quote you give, but denser and less comprehensible. It is like what people used to do to be in the party- repeat what they say, only slightly differently.

Seriously- if all theologians can do is repeat the bible, why do you even bother quoting them?

Samuel - I guess different theologians have different ways of expressing their affirmation of scripture. - thus the rejoinder of Van Til and St Paul. Theology (as Queen of the Sciences) simply thinking God’s thoughts after him. ie. trying to get our head around the concepts etc. Although I can see why you might accuse Van Til of being obtuse.
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Morse - upon what do you base your standard or measurement of “good people”? Outside of the God the Bible yours is the arbitrary position without a means to be objectively tested.
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VB - Ha ha thanks for dropping by.

No, I am accusing Van Til of @#%$ wasting our time. I mean it is like all believers don’t have a bible- they can simply open it and read! Theologians are like cliff notes… which should be offensive to the author.

Good people? Your right- without a standard of morality… why we could simply come to your house, steal your possessions and identity and turn this blog into why SL rocks (don’t ask- you really DON’T want to know).

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It’s a bit of a ’straw-man’ argument isn’t it?
In the interests of civility though, I won’t contend further except to say, that morality without an objective basis will always be relative and as such elevates itself above honest scrutiny. Biblical faith as progressively revealed in the historical narrative is not intrinsicaly dependent on a particular ethnic perspective - that’s merely the context it was first communicated in. Also I don’t think anyone (on the theist/Christian side) would be silly enough to deny the stupid acts and atrocities done in the name of God.. well on second thoughts there probably are.. but I hope you get my drift… Finite man’s flawed application of faith is not sufficient excuse to abandon belief in God, anymore than early surgeons understanding of bloodletting is an excuse to abandon medicine as a means to treating our physical ailments.

Yes, because human happiness is so unimportant. Seriously, I fail how to see this is a relativistic idea. Sure, people have differing standards of what makes them happy and unhappy and you can’t help everyone- but that is life.

And Christianity isn’t dependent on a single ethnic perspective… wait- how many sects are there? And how many of them are nearly ethnic? You know- Greeks are Orthodox, Irish are Catholic, English are Anglicans, Dutch are Calvinist…

Flaws based on faith itself ARE a good reason to abandon the idea of faith. You fail to see that the problems you get are INHERENT to faith. After all, you can only use non-faith based criteria to criticize these atrocities- if you accept their faith as correct, then they did the right thing.

So you have to say their faith was wrong. But why? I can say why the doctors where wrong- they didn’t practice science and slavishly copied the texts- hardly a way to correct errors. How can you say there faith was wrong? It is no different from your own!

Ethnic or sectarian expressions of faith in God don’t make Christianity or God ethnic or sectarian.
It’s not about “their” faith or “my” faith, both are filled with inadequacies of understanding and application. It’s about the object of my faith - an eternal, self-existent, loving, righteous, holy, just, almighty (etc) God.
Faith is not some nebulous ambiguity that I can use to overlay my worldview as a ‘get-out-of-jail-free-card’ to excuse myself from being reasonable and accountable in my beliefs and behaviour (although, once again, granted many have done exactly that - but using them as an excuse does not excuse the creature from the creator God).
And seeing the discussion turned to ‘faith’ (from what was originaly a comment on general revelation ie history, nature & conscience) this is the essence of our condition - the one that comes to God, must first believe that he is and that he is a rewarder of those that faithfully seek him for without faith it is impossible to please God.
Lack of faith is not atheism, its a refusal to acknowledge that I am not the ultimate authority in the universe. The bible has a very old fashioned term to describe it - sin. This is why Christ gave his life, to redeem us back to himself because we are dead in sin and incapable of any expression of faith that would please God. It is a supernatural matter that I cannot pretend to exhaust in comprehension.

Certain forms are ethnic. You are correct that the whole isn’t- it is a universalizing religion.

Faith doesn’t have an object. Faith is believing in things without evidence. If you look it up in the dictionary OR use your own post, you see that it is a true definition.

I have no faith, but I don’t consider myself to be the ultimate authority in the universe. I simply believe that things that don’t have a reflection in reality don’t exist in reality.

You haven’t read the bible have you? Sin isn’t the lack of faith- it is seperation from God.

Christ died, not for faith, but to atone for mankinds seperation from God.

Honestly- if you are going to call yourself a Christian please understand basic doctrine.

Faith IS … the evidence of things not seen - Hebrews 11:1
Whatever does not proceed from faith IS sin - Romans 14:23
Separation from God is the result of sin not sin itself.
I have read my bible - I strongly encourage you to read one also - perhaps begin with an honest reading of the Gospel of John.

Samuel Skinner - why don’t you just mind your own busniess and stop going around and provoking people and antagonizing them about their faith?

I love God because I was born, and given life. My whole world wouldn’t be here without him. It means something to me. Doens’t ANYTHING matter to you?
I think that the computer does, and technology does, and language and your brain and your thoughts do because they got you here to this post and GUESS WHAT!? Those things all came from something - they didn’t poof out of the fricken air from nothing and form from nothing. Life and objects exist because someone created them. Not you, not me, not man, not a bunny friggin rabbit …. and I believe God did it. That one great guy who UNCONDITIONALLY LOVES me, who wants me and gave His own son just to see me live. WOW. What a guy. Are you going to tell me I’m not worth it? You don’t know me, or any of the people you comment on - and yet you are trying to tell us that nothing matters. That we are just wasteful barbarians that will die one day be forgotten and never exist again.

What a bubble of sunshine you are. If you don’t believe happiness is important to humans - then what is? What should be?

Eh. Give me one good reason I should believe that way you think. Wait - don’t because what you have to say won’t matter to me later because I know my life shouldn’t be wasted on your pathetic attempts to make me athiest.

Goodnight - YBTolerant*Amber